Comments on: St. Patrick’s Day: Another Holiday Ruined By America

By: J

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:51:28 +0000

Okay, so it sounds like we agree on the following. Both of our countries are going to hell in a handbasket, but your drunks drink more than mine do. I can hardly wait until Cinco de Mayo.

By: The Beer Nut

The Beer Nut — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:43:42 +0000

If it’s any comfort, the alcoholisation of each and every holiday is by no means just an American thing. We do it too, and we drink waay more per capita than you guys.

By: J

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:18:30 +0000

I knew this was going to get me in trouble from the Irish contingent. It’s always hard to make broad generalizations about anything, and I’m going to assume the Irish commenters are correct, as they should surely know. It was Irish ex-pats I’ve known and the one American I know who spent several years in Dublin who over the years have told me about how things used to be. So perhaps they, too, romanticized their heritage in the face of the ugly Americanization of the holiday.

But I think my primary point that Americans take every holiday and turn it into a drunkfest is sound. I chose St. Patrick’s Day to write about it for no particular reason other than it’s become a pretty ugly event on this side of the world. But I could really have chosen just about any other holiday, too, and made the same point. We should celebrate beer whenever possible, but I don’t think we necessarily need to get bleary-eyed to celebrate everything else.

By: The Beer Nut

The Beer Nut — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:55:04 +0000

I was going to point this out, but Sam beat be to the punch. You’re not describing any Ireland I’ve ever lived in, Jay

The reflective St Patrick’s Day came to an end in about 1961, when pubs were first legally allowed open on the day. I can assure you that in Ireland it has been about getting hammered and rowdy, for my lifetime at least. If you ever saw the windswept, rainsoaked, tractor-laden sub-bolshevik travesty that passed for a Dublin St Patrick’s Day parade in the 1970s and ’80s, you’d see why we changed it to a five-day carnival.

On the bagpipes thing a) every sheep-rearing culture in the world has bagpipes of some sort, b) while there are bagpipers and bagpiping in Ireland it’s not a feature of Irish traditional music (you wouldn’t be able to hear any other instruments!) and uilleann pipes are used instead. I’d say bagpipes came to Ireland as a feature of British army bands. And c) bagpipes, tartan and the rest of what passes for Scottish tradition is largely an 18th century invention.

By: J

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:07:04 +0000

Sam — I know it’s not like it was, and I thought I said so when I mentioned it had been changing in Ireland, at least since 1996 when the “official” stuff began. I’m confident there was unofficial American-style revelry leading up to the decision to make it “official.” But I also feel confident (and have been told so by Irish friends and Americans I know who’ve lived in Dublin) that there are still plenty of people who have tried to cling to the holiday’s original meaning and observe it more traditionally. So “romanticizing?” If so, I don’t believe I’m the only one.

Duffey — About the bagpipes being Scottish, that’s what I though, too. And I was about to point that out, when I came across this, from the Wikipedia bagpipes entry:

The time in which bagpipes were first introduced to the British Isles is debatable. Findings of statuettes of bagpipers in Roman era archaeological digs in England suggest the probability of Roman introduction. Ireland has references going back at least to the Middle Ages.

So it would appear that there were bagpipes in ancient Ireland, as well, we just think of them today as being Scottish.

By: Brent Ainsworth

Brent Ainsworth — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:45:25 +0000

Excellent rant, Jay. But I have a more upbeat story to tell. I went to Moylan’s here in Novato last night for St. Pat’s after work. I wanted to have a pint of Denise Jones’ killer Irish dry stout, called Dragoon’s, and a bowl of Irish stew, then listen to the Contra Costa pipers/drummers hired by Brendan Moylan to entertain the crowd. When it was time for me to go, I walked out to the parking lot to find the pipers/drummers warming up for their second wind. A woman of about 60 was talking to a few of them as I walked toward my car. Those few broke into “Amazing Grace” as the woman watched. When they were done, I overheard the woman say, “Thank you so much. You have no idea how much that means to me.” She was smiling and teary-eyed at the same time. Wow. Powerful moment. I just thought it showed the noncommerical good that St.; Pat’s can sometimes bring.

By: Sam

Sam — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:03:25 +0000

Jay…” In Ireland, they’ll be sitting down to a traditional family dinner, which while it may include a dry Irish stout, is not all about the drinking”…please, you are grossly romanticizing Ireland. there's some political/religious stuff in there. Was it quite and quaint holiday?…probably a generation ago, but now a days, even in Ireland it’s celebrated a lot like here.

By: Duffey

Duffey — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:04:16 +0000

Just to point out – bagpipes aren’t Irish either, they are Scottish. Uilleann pipes are Irish and they are different. Maybe these are what you actually saw, but I can’t count the number of times I have seen bagpipes and kilts portrayed as ‘traditional’ parts of Irish culture.

By: Mark Tichenor

Mark Tichenor — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:29:32 +0000

I know what you mean. I sing for an Irish band. We had the (admittedly well-paid) joy of playing Pogues, Flogging Molly, and Dubliners covers for a club packed with drunken fratboys and girls in pink Boston Red Sox caps. It’s enough to make me glad I’m German. Speaking of which, I’ll catch you in September…

By: Amanda

Amanda — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:16:52 +0000

Did you know Guinness is trying to make this an official holiday? We’d get time off work and all that.

MobLogic has a really funny show up today about it (http://www.moblogic.tv/video/2008/03/17/the-green-beer-lobby/) and the blog post talks about what this means for corporate-sponsored holidays and corporate-sponsored bills (http://www.moblogic.tv/blog/2008/03/17/the-best-advertising-strategy-ever/)

Thought you might be interested!
Amanda